In this episode, Zoe Abelson speaks to Allison Bornstein, social media’s favorite stylist, about the ’70s, maximalism and her three-word approach to curating a wardrobe. She also chats with YOON and Verbal, the Tokyo-based multihyphenate cofounders of luxury streetwear brand Ambush, about how a sense of rebellious innocence keeps them creatively engaged.
In this episode, Zoe Abelson speaks to Allison Bornstein, social media’s favorite stylist, about the ’70s, maximalism and her three-word approach to curating a wardrobe. She also chats with YOON and Verbal, the Tokyo-based multihyphenate cofounders of luxury streetwear brand Ambush, about how a sense of rebellious innocence keeps them creatively engaged.
Zoe [00:00:01] How can objects from the past inspire disruptive creativity of the future? I'm Zoe Abelson, a New Yorker, a watch connoisseur and a lover of all things design. You're listening to The Remasters, a series from Audemars Piguet that explores the importance of vintage to the creative process and how objects we hold onto define what we value most, capturing societal changes, innovations and trends to come. In each episode, you'll hear about how interactions with the world of vintage have changed the course and catapulted the careers of leading creatives and tastemakers. If that sounds like something you want to hear more of, hit Follow now so you don't miss an episode. I grew up in a family that valued holding onto items for a long time, and my mother and grandmother have had a huge influence on my personal sense of style. My grandmother would meticulously care for her clothes and adapt them, and really make them her own. I remember she would even have her tailor put zippers in the back of her cashmere sweaters so she wouldn't mess up her hair when she put them on. It was genius. In this episode, we're talking about enduring fashion and how designers, stylists and creatives pull from the world of vintage to create something new. Joining me today are Yoon and Verbal, co-founders of luxury streetwear brand Ambush. Yoon is also the creative director for Ambush and global women's curator for Nike. Verbal is also Ambush’s C.E.O. and a music producer. But first, we'll hear from stylist, author and creator of the three-word method, Allison Bornstein. Hi, Allison. Thanks for being here. Is there a vintage item that you've come across that has inspired your creative path?
Allison [00:01:51] Yes. I will start by saying that I grew up with not a fashion mom and not even a fashion grandma. So, you know, I feel like I have a lot of friends, or a lot of fabulous people will have amazing things from their mother or from their grandmother. And my mom and my grandma were incredible, and they were so fabulous, but they were not fashion people. However, my grandma's best friend, Marilyn, was a total fashion lady, and when I was young we would go to Marilyn's house and she had these drawers of fabulous costume jewelry and I would just try everything on. She would let me wear whatever I wanted. It was so fabulous. So I had an amazing Robert Lee Morris really, really chunky chain necklace that I had taken from her house and I would wear when I was little. I would wear it to elementary school, and that piece kind of inspired my love of fashion and love, I think, of expression.
Zoe [00:02:52] You mentioned that this jewelry was passed down to you from your grandmother's friend. I am one of those really lucky people with a mother and a grandmother who are very into fashion, and I was passed down a number of special items that I probably wouldn't have picked out for myself, but luckily they have very good taste. And now these are items that I have so much fun wearing. What did that necklace represent to you?
Allison [00:03:17] I think necklaces, and specifically these necklaces, represented fun and, like I said, expression. So I would experiment a lot, with a lot, just to kind of find my style and to find what works for me. For example, like those necklaces and all of Marilyn's jewelry, it represented being a bit too much. I think a lot of personal style and finding your personal style is about restraint, and finding what you love and what speaks to you. And the way that you come to that, I think, is by trying and by being a bit of a maximalist and seeing what works and just kind of like doing it all at once. And that was definitely my method, especially when I was young.
Zoe [00:03:56] Tell us a bit of how you went from a fabulous six-year-old wearing lots of fun necklaces covered in beads to a professional stylist today.
Allison [00:04:04] I loved fashion my whole life. Clearly, that was something I was interested in. I was interested in expressing, I was interested in trying, I was interested in all that. But I don't really think I understood that that's something that you could do for a living. I grew up in Michigan, which, there wasn't that much, kind of, fashion influence happening. I learned about fashion design from TV, and I learned about styling from really studying celebrities and their stylists. But, like, I wasn't really aware of the way that you can make fashion a career, necessarily. So I started by, I went to college in Michigan and I studied art history, but when I was there, I was, like, I know what I want to do, and I know that it's in fashion. And so then I went to a fashion school in New York, and when I was there, I would intern for magazines. And that's really when I kind of saw all the parts of the fashion industry, and I really saw up close what a fashion stylist does and, like, how a magazine operates. Eventually I sort of decided that while I love working on set and love working with other stylists, it was time to kind of forge my own path and work in a way that felt genuine and fun to me, which is how I work now, which is working with regular, normal people, not celebrities. Everyday women, helping them style their wardrobe and get dressed for every day.
Zoe [00:05:23] It's almost like you're helping people like you would have wanted to be helped when you were younger, and you didn't have the influences around you.
Allison [00:05:32] One hundred percent, yes, it is totally like that. And just to be like a sounding board or, like, you know, just a source of validation for people because fashion can be really, it's subjective, you know, and so you don't really know if you're doing it right because there's not necessarily a right or wrong. Even though, I guess, fashion magazines and social media might want to tell you that there's a right and wrong, there's not. Which actually makes it harder and a lot more daunting for people, because there's not a formula to follow. There's not, like, set rules. You really have to kind of find your own way. And sometimes it takes a little bit of cheerleading or a little bit of hand-holding or validation, and I'm happy to be that person for people.
Zoe [00:06:12] And how about you, Verbal? Is there a vintage item that's inspired your creative path?
Verbal [00:06:17] For me, one of the many key items which architected my creative process is, well, first of all, the culture of skateboarding and, namely, my first deck that I had when I was in sixth grade, and it was the Tony Hawk deck when he was in the Powell-Peralta team, and that was in 1986. That opened so many doors to culture, music, fashion. Yeah, it was, it was a beginning of a journey for me.
Zoe [00:06:46] And how did it inspire you?
Verbal [00:06:49] Back then, it was a big boom, especially in Japan as well. In Tokyo, they were shutting down streets, like in Harajuku, and people were break dancing, rockabilly guys coming out. Skate shops would pull out ramps, and they would try to gather kids and show tricks to each other. And those guys would share the kind of music they listened to. And through that, I was introduced to different types of bands and then also saw how professional skateboarders dressed in the States. So that was my window into the culture and beyond. Me living in Tokyo, we were making it our own culture. That really influenced my way of thinking, like the design aspect of how decks were designed and what the kind of brands that people wore back then, the kind of sneakers people wore and the style of skateboarding. It was a swag, you know? Now it transcended time and skateboarding is like, you know, it's a beast. It's massive now. But that is a moment in time that I really look back to as being very influential.
Zoe [00:07:53] And Yoon, what was the vintage item that inspired your creative journey?
Yoon [00:07:57] Okay, it was a struggle, because there's so many. I wanted to talk about this photographer called Karlheinz Weinberger. He was a photographer in the ’50s. He was capturing kids called Halbstarken in Austria from working class. Aaround that era,. I think that after the war, a lot of the American entertainment was, like, starting to influence, like, outside of America, including James Dean and Elvis and everything. So those kids would just dress up to kind of mimic their idols, but because they didn't have money and they're just, like, factory workers, they would actually gather all the scrapes they find and they would decorate themselves with their favorite jeans and leather jackets. What left an impression on me when I came across this photographer's work, and specifically these kids, were how just pure they were in terms of, like, self-expression. It wasn't like, in a way, now, that people are quite conscious about how they appear from outside, but I think it was just more about just kind of like, look at me, is almost like their way of peacocking and appearing from each other to just kind of, like, display their personality. And you have to kind of understand that this is, like, the time when, like, there's no social media, there's no internet or anything. So you have to kind of appear to kind of make yourself even more present, to be remembered by your peers, to everyone. If I put it simply, it's just that I found that really beautiful that for them, self-expression, wasn't about, like wealth or money or anything, it was just purely just so beautiful that it just left an impression on me and made me realize how fashion can be, it's really about self-expression.
Zoe [00:09:28] You mentioned his subjects created DIY fashion. How did that inform your approach as a designer?
Yoon [00:09:35] I think it's just a really spirit of the punk. And I mean, obviously I don't dress like punk or anything, but that era and that, like, Teddy Boy and all this movement coming out of the ’50s, that actually formed into the punk movement inand U.K., U.S. andin different places. So if you kind of trace back the history of it, it's like that rebellious spirit all kind of, like, started to, stemmed from there and taken its own form throughout the decades. I've always just been kind of like a rebellious person. As soon as someone tells me or imposes certain rules, like, I actually run the opposite way. And I feel like rules are like, obviously they're man-made. And it's like, I don't know who made them for what. To me, like, I wanted to kind of operate my creativity in the space where I want to make my own rules, too. That's why I just naturally gravitate toward people who’re walking their own ways and forming their own world, not kind of conforming.
Zoe [00:10:26] And I think fashion is really cyclical. Do you think we're seeing any recent resurgence of punk style?
Yoon [00:10:33] It's the mind-set, isn't it? It's not that the outward aesthetic of, like, the stunts and piercing and the care. It's not that, all these things are like really the mind-set of it and why you want to rebel against, and what are you rebelling against? And so, whatever the form that you like to express, that rebellion, I think, is what true punk is. There are punks out there, but I would like to see more, because I think that right now a lot of the things are driven by algorithm, and it's, like, without actual critical thinking skill sets,. I think it's harder for creative people to, like, be in their true form and stand for what they want to stand for. I would love to see more individual, detached form of expression.
Zoe [00:11:15] And do you consider yourself a rebel?
Yoon [00:11:17] In my own way. You know, I don't go out and, like, burn flags and all that stuff. For me, what's important is that I commit to what I do, and I stick to knowing who I really am and being honest with what I want to do, and sticking to it and carrying it out in my work in my own way. I think in that way I'm being my own form of punk.
Zoe [00:11:36] Let's go backward for a minute. Can you talk me through the timeline of how you started your brand Ambush?
Yoon [00:11:43] We met in Boston when we were college students. I stayed in Boston because I was just working as a graphic designer, and that was what I studied in college. I was kind of thinking like, okay, maybe the next step in my journey will be, like, going to a big city like New York, because there's obviously much more opportunities. So I was going to think about just moving there. And he just suggests, Why don't you just try out Tokyo to see if this is a place that might just kind of, like, find something to do. When you're young, you have all the time and everything’s like, I was just like, I'll go, try it out, if it doesn't work out, I still have an option to like, come back home anyway. But, um, yeah, it's been like, over 20 years, um, I've been stuck here. Like, that's the genesis of it. But like, the brand in itself was also kind of like a very organic thing. It wasn't like, Hey, let's start a brand, because, you know, we want to do fashion. It wasn't that, it was just dabbling into different things that I came across in this city. Whether do small opportunities that's given to me by like, styling. I wasn't even a stylist. It's just that, like, you know, some people just give me opportunity. He gave me opportunity to just kind of gather things and bring something to, like, small design work, designing books, to, like, fliyers. And from there it was just kind of like a Renaissance era for Tokyo, because there was a new wave of, like, the club culture that was coming in through a different genre of music at that time. The thing about club culture is, like, you actually have to get dressed up really interestingly to stand out. So that's when I kind of like, refell in love with fashion. We start to make things for fun, give it all to friends. And, and that's how I took a form into, like, a brand thing.
Verbal [00:13:20] Yeah. Just to kind of add to what Yoon was saying and give context, when my music started and Yoon was in Japan, she was helping me with styling. And also we would make our own creations, namely jewelry, because I was looking to make custom jewelry and she would have these crazy ideas. So we're like, Ah, let's make that. We thought it was really cool. So we would make these painted jewelry, which were the Pow! pieces, which ended up being one of the iconic piece for us. dDuring 2005-6-7, there was a convergence of different genres. So people from the rock space, hip-hop, art, architecture, Marc Newson was hanging out in this club, musicians like Rihanna would come through. It was, it was crazy. And all the famous Japanese fashion people are always there. So it was a real moment. And that's when we started D.J.ing, exchanging ideas. And this is the place where we were saying, Hey, we make these jewelry and people go, Oh, where can I get them? Actually, you can't, so I'll give it to you, you know? So we would pass these out for fun and subsequently they would go out and wear this in their photo shoots or music videos or what have you. And that generated exposure. And from there people started asking, Can we order some for our stores? And that was pretty much the organic beginning of Ambush. And we were sending packages out of our apartment first, and not necessarily on any fashion calendar, but eventually we evolved into that.
Zoe [00:14:57] So you both met in the U.S. and now live in Tokyo. How did being in these different places influence or inspire your work?
Verbal [00:15:05] For me, I was born and raised in Tokyo, and I'm back in Tokyo, but my appreciation for Japan only happened when I went to the States and came back. So I went to college, I had a brief stint in a professional space and came back and everything got highlighted. All the IPs in Japan, all the craftsmanship. And you know, when I was growing up, I didn't really appreciate kimono or how beautiful Kyoto is. Like, even saké. People who come from outside in and appreciate the mastery. aAnd thenin the history of this craftsmanship, you know, I learned that by traveling and coming back to Tokyo after that. So, it made me refocus on what I already had growing up, and it enabled me to sort of hone in on my strengths instead of, like, looking outward. You know, I realized that I kind of grew up with these elements. Yeah, that's what really inspires me. Like now more than ever, just because, exactly what you said,. I was born and raised here, but still I'm finding out all these places, things, people that I never knew even existed. So it's fun discovering things in your hometown. And it's, I draw inspiration from that.
Zoe [00:16:22] And Allison, I've actually been following you on social media for a while now. You have a huge online following where you post looks and mood boards, often taken from the past. As a stylist, what era of fashion interests you the most, and why?
Allison [00:16:38] The 1970s interest me the most. Well, there's a few things that I think sort of influenced it. First of all, I read a book about a, she called herself a groupie. So this isn't me saying it, but it was an incredible book. It was all about like L.A. in the ’60s and ’70s and ’80s, and all of the, the, the bands, all of the women. And just the way that she would describe the clothes and describe the era felt like, it really resonated with me. And it kind of sent me down, like, a rabbit hole of reading, like, every authorized or unauthorized autobiography, biography of wives and girlfriends of musicians in the ’70s. And I got very into that. And then I would Google Image everything. I was just very into it. Similarly, I was also like every girl who grew up in the ’90s and 2000s, I was obsessed with Kate Moss and I loved every single thing she wore. I would have collages and mood boards of all Kate Moss looks, and I remember reading once that she said that she was really influenced by Anita Pallenberg, and I didn't know who that was. So I looked that up and then my mind was blown just to think that, like, I was referencing something and somebody else was referencing something. And then Anita Pallenberg was wearing vintage clothes in the ’70s that were actually from the 1930s. It set me in a spiral of inspiration.
Zoe [00:17:57] And how do you reflect that ’70s influence while making it look fresh and modern?
Allison [00:18:02] So I have my three-word method, which is essentially choosing three words that kind of describe your style. And one of my words is ’70s, my other words are classic and elegant. So I think the way that I kind of give that hint of ’70s is I'll have a ’70s silhouette, or I'll have kind of like a ’70s accessory, or I'll have my hair kind of like long and straight and a little ’70s, but then I will add more classic touches and modern touches and elegant touches to make that ’70s vibe feel a little bit more modern, or kind of bring it into this era. I sometimes find if I'll go too ’70s or wear, like, my fringed suede jacket with a bellbottom, I'll feel like I'm wearing a costume. So I like to have my ’70s pieces and my ’70s references and my ’70s influences, but make sure that they're kind of balanced with something that, again, feels classic or modern or elegant.
Zoe [00:18:55] And for those that aren't familiar with your three-word method, how would you explain that, and how do you use that as a tool?
Allison [00:19:01] Yes. So the three words are distilling your style into three adjectives, but honestly, they can be any kind of words that you want. And my thought behind it is that everybody has personal style. Great personal style is all about mix. It's all about mixing kind of dissimilar things. It's all about contrast. It's all about tension. So to find your three words, this is what I, I usually advise. Your first word is your practical word. And you find that by looking in your wardrobe and looking at the things that you wear all the time and asking yourself, how would I describe these things? And that's your word number one. So for me that's classic. I look at my wardrobe, it's, like, classics. It's jeans, it's T-shirts, it's blazers, it's button-downs. It's all of that. The second word is your aspirational word. And the way that you find that is by looking at the things that you're attracted to or your mood boards or the references that you pin. And for me that is, like, very much ’70s. So my second word or my aspirational word is ’70s. And then the third word is, how do you want to feel in your clothing? How do you want to show up? And for me, I use the word elegant just because I feel like sometimes I can go a little bit vintage or I can go sometimes a bit like undone or messy. So I like the kind of reminder of, like, adding something with a little bit of elegance, whether that's, like, an elegant fabrication, an elegant handbag, or even just, like, a pair of sunglasses that feels kind of elegant. So those are the three words, and I think that it's important to have three because it's important to kind of have that contrast. Like I said, if I went all ’70s, it would look like I'm wearing a costume. And also it wouldn't feel genuine to me. If I went all elegant, I would feel too fancy. And if I went all classic, I'd feel too boring.
Zoe [00:20:44] Similar to how you advise clients on their clothing and fashion and style, I am a watch dealer, so I help people curate their watch collections. And I think the three-word method could completely work with watch collections as well. As you were talking through it, I kind of thought of my three words. So, do you want to hear them?
Allison [00:21:02] Of course!
Zoe [00:21:05] Classic, funky and fancy.
Allison [00:21:09] I love funky and fancy. Like, I especially like funky and fancy because it's not mandatory, but I do feel like it's very important to have, like, some, like, tension in those words. And I feel like the idea of having, like, elements that feel like funky and cool and unusual, but also an element that feels like fancy and luxe and elevated is, like, very important and does feel very much like you and your style.
Zoe [00:21:33] I also think that ’70s, that period of watchmaking, ’60s and ’70s, actually is a combo of funky and fancy. There was a lot of architectural inspiration for case designs, and then you also had a lot of yellow gold and kind of fancier case materials. So there was a lot of exploration in the ’70s for watchmaking, and I feel like I have been gravitating toward that for my watch collection as well.
Allison [00:22:03] I love that, and now I'm, like, desperate to just, like, go look at a bunch of ’70s watches.
Zoe [00:22:08] Yeah, you would love them.
Allison [00:22:09] Send me the best, send me the best ones.
Zoe [00:22:11] We'll talk about it later.
Allison [00:22:12] Okay, good..
Zoe [00:22:12] Good. Verbal and Yoon, I would also love to know how vintage also inspires your work. Verbal, you've mentioned hip-hop as an inspiration, and I know you're also into vintage toys. How have these influences informed your work?
Verbal [00:22:26] When I encountered hip-hop, it was in elementary school, and this was one of the first times I traveled to the U.S. I was pretty much thrown into the lion's den, so to speak. I'm a kid from Japan watching anime growing up, and I have no music interest whatsoever, and I meet all these kids in camp about the same age, and they're break dancing, they're wearing track suits, they're wearing gold chains. And I was like, What? And now it's very, very cliché. But, back then, someone holding a boombox half their body size, it made no sense. I was like, What is going on here? They were all rapping some song and I go, What's that? And they were like, What? You don't even know Run-D.M.C.? So that was, like, the norm. So it was the beginning of what's to come and the current popular culture. So that was vintage hip-hop, I guess, because the first cassette I got was Run-D.M.C. And what was interesting then was, it was very innocent. It was the beginning of art form. People were doing hip-hop and getting involved with rapping and dancing and graffiti, D.J.ing, instead of doing other things, you know, especially in the inner city, like. Sso, it was kind of finding innocence in the whole environment that they're in. So I guess for me, vintage is trying to capture innocence. When I think of these vintage pieces, whether it's music or skateboard, and even during that time, people were talking about hip-hop and they seemed very mature for their age, but at the same time they were trading toys with each other in the school buses. It symbolizes that part of my soul that seeks to just be creative for the sake of being creative. Because after a while, when you start doing things professionally, it becomes an occupational hazard and you think of things in a more business sense. The vintage reminds me of the necessity to innovate innocence, right? Always, always try to keep it pure.
Yoon [00:24:27] Everything roots from something and they evolve into something else, just like the photographer's work that I talked about earlier. It's very important to understand the progression of things and it lays the roots of whatever you're getting into. In that sense, I think for me, vintage is important to understand the history in what cultural context, like, things came about, and I think it will give us an idea how to come up with a design and things that will make sense in a future tense.
Zoe [00:24:53] And you both have such varied creative careers. And Ambush is much more than just a fashion line. Verbal, you've worked extensively in music, and Yoon, you've previously been a graphic designer. Do you feel like you need to have your hands in a lot of pies to be creatively inspired?
Yoon [00:25:09] Yes, for me, I've always been very honest with myself. And when you don't know anything, sometimes you look at people who have done great work and you kind of study them, like, what kind of path they have walked, or you know, how they kind of like formed their opinions and all this stuff. So, like, you know, I always want to, like, study people who have done amazing things, but they all happen to be actually outside of fashion. So I think they help me to keep things open, to welcome things. Because of that, I always looked at fashion as a platform to exercise ideas. It's not just, like, clothes to me. I think fashion can take place in so many different industries. So around the time that when we started the jewelry and turned it into a proper business, we needed clothes to shoot with the jewelry in our look book because I didn't want to use other brands. Because of that need, we got into making some tops, and then from there we got into, like, full outfit and everything. So, like, I think we're the first jewelry brand that actually got into apparel after we started the jewelry, like, we kept it unisex from the beginning. And I remember like, fashion editors were like, There’s no such thing as unisex., bBut why not? Your finger, your neck, wrist, doesn't have gender. If you step back and look at all those things we created over the years, like it's it's kind of like forming our own universe.
Zoe [00:26:22] I love what you said about unisex jewelry and clothing, because I think that's very important with watches as well. I'm a luxury watch dealer and I've always struggled with brands labeling something a ladies’ watch or ar men's watch and putting it in a box, because I was never really attracted to quote-unquote ladies’ watches. I always liked things that were a little more masculine, a little bigger, and I think that's a very cool part of your designs, that you think about that, about it being accessible.
Yoon [00:26:56] I didn't come up in a way that was, like, traditionally trained. I think when you get trained in certain things, it kind of puts certain dogma in it and like, like it needs to be this way, or this is how it's worn. So you stick to that. Literally, I came from a place of play, meaning, like , going back to the club culture and all this stuff. It's like we're just playing, right? It was never separated by, like, marketing terms and all those things. It was just pure like, Hey, I like this,. I'm going to wear it.
Zoe [00:27:21] Exactly. And Verbal, what are your thoughts? Do you need to have multiple creative outlets in order to be creatively inspired?
Verbal [00:27:30] Yeah. So for me, I really like to get my hands on everything because that gives me the ability to find what I identify with, gives me a silhouette on what I'm about. Also, to what Yoon was saying, you know, I'm not a trained musician. You know, I just kind of jumped into it and it sort of happened and one thing led to another and it kept going. And I'm synergizing, getting involved with a lot of different musicians, a lot of collaborations, producing. And through that I met a lot of beautiful, cool people who I also get inspired from fashion to, that kind of led to tech, and that kind of led to art, and whoever that inspires me and gets me energized,. yYou know,? I like to be in their community.
Zoe [00:28:15] When you're designing for Ambush, where do you start? Do you ever intentionally look at older pieces or collections?
Yoon [00:28:22] I've started to do that little bit more, because I think now that we have built enough catalog and contents to kind of bring it back, and I think it's also important to kind of reintroduce some of the works to remind people, Hey, we've done this. But then also, if it makes sense with the story that we're introducing in the collection. But it usually starts with feeling, and feeling is kind of more, like, okay, what mood do we want to convey in the context of, like, our Ambush world? And also, is that something that we want to transition into from a previous collection to the next? I like to see how I can kind of go into it and kind of, like, bring something out of it and kind of bring it to now and make it modern.
Zoe [00:29:01] And speaking of archival influences, there is no denying that fashion designers have often taken inspiration from past trends. Allison, how do you think designers can do this successfully and create something that's fresh and new?
Allison [00:29:15] Oh, that's such a good question. I mean, I love when designers will kind of remake an amazing vintage piece or sort of reimagine it. And I feel like the most successful reimaginings of vintage pieces are when the designer kind of puts their own spin on it. And I think it's the same with getting dressed, like the people that are looking all the same are the people that, again, are referencing all the same images, and then doing it very literally and, again, not necessarily putting it through, kind of like their own personal funnel. And I feel like when we do that and we kind of infuse ourselves and our own personality, that's when something feels, like, really special and really amazing. Fashion can be really intimidating, and it's really hard to know if you're doing it right. There really is no right, but it's hard to feel like you're doing it right. Like everybody feels, kind of, I feel, like, insecure with fashion. And I think the people that, again, look the most confident are the ones that are really putting their own spin on things.
Zoe [00:30:10] So how do you determine what's timeless versus what's trendy?
Allison [00:30:14] I have, like, a little timeless-versus.-trendy criteria, and I feel like it's all very personal. So I always like to ask myself, Did I want this last year? You know, if I see a new piece, I'll kind of ask myself, like, Did I want this last year, or do I want this because I'm seeing it everywhere? And if I'm seeing it everywhere, that doesn't mean that it's, like, not a worthy purchase. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's not timeless. But I think that's just kind of something to think about, to sort of help you kind of not jump on every single trend or, like, grab everything. The second thing I ask is, do I think I'm going to want to wear it next year? And I know that doesn't seem like that far away, but like, sometimes the answer is no, I just want to wear it right now. And for me, that's not, like, necessarily a timeless piece. I mean, ideally, when I'm buying something, I want to be able to wear it next year or in 10 years, or in 20 years or in 50 years. But the third question is the most important question. And that sort of plays into that, will I want to wear it in, like, 50 years? And that question I ask myself is, if this goes out of style and I put it away, in 10 years will I want to bring out this exact one or will I want a different version? Will I want a new version? Let's say we're talking about, like, a suede fringed jacket. To me, that's timeless. It's very ’70s. It's timeless. But like, if I'm buying one I want to ask myself, like, does this have some super modern details that, when I pull it out in, like, 10 years, will those details be exciting and fun, or will those kind of date that piece in a way that doesn't feel timeless? I heard somebody saying this, which I thought was really interesting, they were saying that, like, it's kind of like a vintage car. It's like if you hold onto it long enough, it will become cool. But there's going to be, like, a lot of years when it's not. And you just kind of have to decide, like, am I going to hold onto this or am I going to get rid of it? But like, yeah, it's, everything becomes cool again, if you're willing to kind of hang onto it. And if it's a good piece.
Zoe [00:31:58] One hundred percent. And there's actually a saying in the world of watches that you never truly own a timepiece, you merely look after it for the next generation. And it's almost the same idea. What was cool, you know, 20, 30 years ago might have been smaller case sizes or different color dials and then, you know, giving it to the next generation or two generations below, at that point, it's probably going to be a really cool item that, you know, for those 20, 30 years in between, no one really appreciated it at that time.
Allison [00:32:32] Yeah, that makes so much sense. I actually have a watch that my mom gave me that last time I was home in Michigan, I was like, Ooh, can I have that? She's like, I've been trying to give this to you for, like, the past, like 15 years, and you've never wanted it. I'm like, I know, but now, now it's looking good to me.
Zoe [00:32:46] Let's talk about vintage and personal style. Verbal, have any looks from the past inspired the way that you dress today?
Verbal [00:32:54] In the Asian-American community, people dressed a certain way. And I was getting used to that in college. And, here comes Yoon from Seattle, when grunge was just booming. And she's dressed with this, like, brown leather jacket, cool jeans and her hair is super short. It's vintage in a sense that it's innocent. I mean, even thrift shopping, you have to have style. You can, you can pick out, like, random-looking clothes. But if you're select and you know how to curate, then that becomes a total style. And I mean, she was embodying that. So I am not particularly good at vintage shopping. I like some pieces and I appreciate it, but I feel I don't want to wear it. I kind of I'm nerding out over certain denim or certain Margiela archive pieces, and I just, like, look at it sometimes and appreciate it. I guess I incorporate vintage watches, like, because I'm more into the older pieces because it's very historical. I just wonder why people would make minute repeaters, or why did it have to have terbium back in the day. And, and if someone else understands it, you can just kind of go off on it. It's just bursting with inspiration.
Zoe [00:34:05] What I love about that is that those are functions and complications that are so antiquated. We don't need that today at all. But brands still choose to perfect and innovate and create new ways of, of continuing the traditions of watchmaking in that way. So I like that you appreciate that as well.
Verbal [00:34:25] For sure, 100 percent. Yoon and I, when we go watch shopping, we have different styles. But I like openwork stuff where you can see the movement, the different materials used. Like you said, some technology might be antiquated, but a juxtaposition of antiquated, modernized movements with new, like, carbon or ceramic materials and stuff like that is so, so interesting. One of the grail pieces I have is an AP Concept, because it began a whole movement of concept watches, and the case is made out of a material that's used on spaceships and stuff. And so, for me, that's like a museum piece.
Zoe [00:35:05] It's exciting. It's definitely, in a lot of ways, not necessary. But it also, in a way, is bringing, like I said before, traditional watchmaking to the way that we live today. We are typically a little bit rougher with watches. We need things that are going to be more waterproof. We want watches that you can wear in your daily life and not worry about them. So I think a lot of vintage watches, unfortunately, you don't get to enjoy them as much as modern watches, but we still want the feel of vintage. So brands like AP and the [RE]remMaster and the Cconcept watches, they all get to kind of take the old traditions and make them modern for today's world, which I love. Yoon, what kind of watches do you like?
Yoon [00:35:50] I'm type of person, when I buy something, I like to just own it and really enjoy and marinate for a long time. I do appreciate the art of complication. I like to look at them. My first watch was actually an AP Royal Oak. I think I got it like 20 years ago. I saw it, like, I fell in love with the shape. It's quite, like, masculine and strong. But I was, like, for some reason I got really struck by, like, the design of it. I wanted to wear it so much that, yeah, actually, like it was like, it was my first watch.
Zoe [00:36:18] Did you buy it secondhand or did you buy it new?
Yoon [00:36:21] I don't think it was in Japan. So I remember Verbal had to go to Hong Kong to pick it up.
Verbal [00:36:25] It was a secondary watch store.
Zoe [00:36:27] I actually lived in Hong Kong for three and a half years in the watch industry. And that's definitely the, I mean, people might argue that actually Tokyo is the place to go to get vintage watches or the secondary, because usually people take a lot better care of their watches in Tokyo. But Hong Kong, you just have the accessibility, you have everything there. I feel like all watches kind of end up there at some point in their journey. So I love that your first watch you found in Hong Kong, that's so cool. And you both talk a lot about curiosity and openness. Where do you go when the well is dry and you're looking for some inspiration?
Verbal [00:37:05] Wherever I could tune out is my vacation. So if I'm in Nakano Broadway, which is a mall with toys and watches and pretty much everything nerdy you can think of. Or when I'm there, I'm just walking down the aisles and going into shops that I want to and, like, just reveling at whatever I find. And I'm like, Wow, like, why, why would anyone do this? Or there's certain books there that, scenes that are very niche. It's like getting interested in that culture. When I travel to the States, there's this fair, a place called Frank & Son, huge warehouse, and they store all these, again, toys and even, like, car body parts and stuff like that. So, it's a mile long. It's huge, right? You can just get lost in there. For me, those kinds of places are where I can just recalibrate and find myself.
Zoe [00:37:55] And what about you, Allison? What's your go-to when you're looking for inspiration?
Allison [00:38:00] I will think about either, like, one of my style icons that I really love. So I'll think about like a Cher, or a Jane Birkin, or a Mary-Kate and Ashley, or like a Diana Ross. And I will look at different images, I will screenshot, I will see, like, the other images that they kind of, like, direct me to. I'll go on Pinterest and I will like, just look up, like, ’70s disco looks and then go, like, crazy from there. So as a result, it doesn't feel like I'm drawing inspiration from the same places everybody else is drawing from. And I always advise clients, like, when you see something that you like, like when you see an image that you like, or when you're watching a TV show and you see a look that you like, or when you're watching a movie or reading a book, like, take a screenshot, take a photo of that, and it'll make your life so much easier. You will have, like, such an amazing, like, textured collection of photos that you can, like, call upon and will make your style feel, like, rich and genuine and like yourself.
Zoe [00:38:52] I feel like I'm the perfect potential client for you. I am a screenshot queen and usually just go through all of them before I get dressed, like I need to see my screenshots.
Allison [00:39:04] Yes! Do you have them all in, like, a folder, like by season, or do you just, like, have all your inspiration together?
Zoe [00:39:08] I text them to myself, which is probably crazy, but it's my easiest way to reference them.
Allison [00:39:15] Oh, that's such a good idea. That's another good way to do it, for sure.
Zoe [00:39:18] You don't seem to push people to buy new things as a solution to styling. It seems a lot about remastering what they already have. How do you do this while still inspiring them?
Allison [00:39:29] I like to just sort of promote, like, thoughtful consumption. You know, I know that we always think, like, if I hate my clothes, or if I hate my closet, or if I hate my wardrobe, like, the next thing I buy is going to be the solution to all my problems. Like, if I just buy this, then, like, everything is going to be fine. That's, like, never, ever true. So I like to help people look in their closets and, like, actually be really thoughtful and really strategic, like, what is working and what can we use or what can we purchase that's going to elevate it or take it to that place that we want it? Then again, fashion is fun. And I understand that, like, shopping is fun and it's like a fun activity and a fun way to express yourself. But I do feel like having good, thoughtful, intentional personal style is about being a little bit more thoughtful and intentional with our purchases. And it's so much less sexy than like, buying a bunch of things to, like, be a little bit more analytical, but like, it makes such a big difference. Sometimes I would like to, like, think of my closet as like my collection, like, this is my collection of things. And like, if something doesn't deserve to be there, like, it's not going to get in there.
Zoe [00:40:35] Finally, what would you like to leave as your creative legacy? How do you hope your work is remembered?
Allison [00:40:41] I hope that people remember me as somebody who helped kind of demystify fashion for them. Like, that's what I really like to do, either on social media or with my clients. Like I said before, like, fashion can seem really intimidating. It can seem really scary, and I hope that I can be the person to show you, first of all, like, it's not that scary, and we can sort of work through this together. And, like, you have personal style. I want people to remember me as somebody who, like, helps guide them toward their style. That's maybe a really tall order, but that's what I hope.
Zoe [00:41:12] Yoon and Verbal, regarding your creative legacy, what would you like future designers to take away from your work and use as something new?
Verbal [00:41:19] It's a fight to remain innocent, right? Sort of, the, the innocence and the purity and the passion is what, you start getting into the whole business side of things or, okay, you’ve got to market things a certain way, and those are all interesting and necessary. But I think as a designer and creator, you’ve just gotta, have to go for it, because it's interesting or just because it's something that's welling up from within you. So yeah, to, to anyone starting, I'm sure they're starting because they're super excited. But always fight to keep that fire burning and remain childlike, I guess. Keep that innocence.
Yoon [00:41:55] I keep saying the word openness. But as a brand, let's call it a brand, because I think that just kind of like combines everything together, it's very unique because we really use fashion as a platform to exercise so many different ideas, and you don't see many brands do that. I mean, I think they do it because of the, certain trend or marketing exercise, but just generally keeping honest to, like, what they want to do and just venturing into different industries and working with different people and kind of bringing the fashion element into it. So, I guess, like, people who want to get into, whether specifically the fashion industries or any creative work, is just like, find, through each step and process, like, you know, try to find your own voice and see how you can kind of like bring your own story into those things. And the world’s so big that there are enough people to find what you do super interesting and want to be part of that journey. So, yeah, keep things open and really, genuinely appreciate things that, like all humanity is bringing and just like, you know, be passionate about, like your curiosity.
Zoe [00:43:01] It's endlessly inspiring to me to hear from creatives and learn about how their brains work. When it comes to Allison, I really feel like I could be the perfect client for her, and she is probably the perfect client for me. I would love to be able to help her find her perfect watch. I think I'm going to steal the three-word method when trying to help clients find their perfect watch now. I love how Yoon and Verbal bring their cultures from around the world and use it for inspiration in their designs. I really connected to Yoon about how she feels that creating unisex jewelry is so important. As a watch collector, I have always been drawn to all watches, not only pieces that are labeled or marketed toward women. And I think that we're now seeing, in a lot of categories, we're trying to break out of that traditional box of what's for a woman and what's for a man. I also loved Verbal’s stories about being Korean and growing up in Japan, moving to the States for college, and then taking all of those experiences and cultures back to Japan with him. I can understand the impact that living abroad has, and Verbal’s experiences are probably what makes his work so unique. But honestly, what I loved most about all these conversations is that you could really see where they take inspiration from the past. Yoon from the ’50s, Allison from the ’60s and ’70s, and Verbal the ’90s, and yet their work feels undeniably fresh. I'd like to thank our guests, Allison Bornstein, Yoon and Verbal. Thanks for listening to The Remasters, a podcast series brought to you by Audemars Piguet. If you've missed our music special with Mark Ronson, catch up by hitting the Follow button. And remember, if you're looking for inspiration, start with the past.